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I've been using a scoop of Karbolyn post workout for a few weeks now and it appears to be perfectly decent but vitargo seems to get all the hype and recommendation "if money isn't an issue."

I'm wondering if anyone has any experience with these or others and would like to weight in regarding carb supps. Karbolyn isn't exactly cheap but Vitargo is monstrously expensive and I'm curious if they earn their price-point by being appreciably superior to other sources surrounding a workout (malto, dextrose, waxymaize, fruit etc.)
Thanks!

Ive used both and like both but when I use again I will probably go with the vitargo, mainly just because of the studies behind it.I feel it is a bit better but then again Im a bit biased cause my most successful bulk I was using this.Im pretty much over the stage of comparing things because Ive found what works for me and am pretty hesitant to try new things now.Money is also a lot tighter but I dont like short changing myself for anything but the best, otherwise I dont use anything.I like to use just a few expensiive but effective things or nothing whereas before I just boatloaded everything.

Id go with karbolyn unless you have money to burn and willing to pay 2x the cost for MAYBE a 10-30% gain if that and peace of mind with the studies behind it.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, man. I appreciate that. It's always hard to gauge how much of a difference these additions will make in the long run but it's still good to know what the best of the best is.

I've always found the trickiest part surrounding these products and decisions is gauging how to quantify what actually makes it better. If they can both rapidly replenish glycogen without a subsequent crash or a lot of bloating then it would seem that's all you need (but numbers and graphs are still nice).

DaCookie wrote:Ive used both and like both but when I use again I will probably go with the vitargo, mainly just because of the studies behind it.I feel it is a bit better but then again Im a bit biased cause my most successful bulk I was using this.Im pretty much over the stage of comparing things because Ive found what works for me and am pretty hesitant to try new things now.Money is also a lot tighter but I dont like short changing myself for anything but the best, otherwise I dont use anything.I like to use just a few expensiive but effective things or nothing whereas before I just boatloaded everything.

Id go with karbolyn unless you have money to burn and willing to pay 2x the cost for MAYBE a 10-30% gain if that and peace of mind with the studies behind it.

Liked both, but the cost to benefit difference between the 2 led to Karbolyn being my choice. Just didn't see dramatically better results when using Vitargo.

Thanks, Rob, good to hear. I think I'll stay the course with karbolyn, should help me out after todays Feast workout #2

RobRegish wrote:Liked both, but the cost to benefit difference between the 2 led to Karbolyn being my choice. Just didn't see dramatically better results when using Vitargo.

I'll be very honest with you all, myself and most of the folks I train with have never seen a whole lot of measurable performance difference over the years between using foods/fruits verses any of the carb powders.

I'm not so much the "lives at iron dawg gym" guy today as decades past, but as a a hardcore roadie (bicyclist) believe me you learn a LOT about using carbs and fruit sugars as fuel in this sport. Before, during and after riding. Most often you learn it the hard way, via failure, running out of gas! You also learn a lot about BCAA's and such to where you haul around MASS PRO Amino and a bag of "Real Salt" in your gear bag.

While I prefer using foods, the two carb powders referenced above are top flight to my knowledge. I think it comes down to convince more than anything, the advantages of using an all-in-one powder. It's not like the carb powders decidedly trump an athletes smart usage of carb foods the way something like Synthagen really does trump protein foods for post weight training recovery.

We've been offered a great buy in on Karbolyn several times, and I know it is legit... but, you can look back historically and see we've never carried a stand alone carb powder at MASS. Not once in 20 years, although we've field tested most every quality one (and some junk ones too) to come down the pike.

Maybe we could/should/would stock one. Maybe it's my mild bias against them which has precluded it from happening, but our focus has always been squarely on proteins because only protein builds muscle.

All that rambling done, I think either product mentioned above will deliver great results and convenience, and sometimes I'll grant that saving time trumps saving money.

Convenience is a big part for sure. Sometimes it's just nice to be able to drink the whole thing (without even having to use a blender).

I'm definitely a supplement hound at the end of the day though. Always chasing those shiny objects and getting caught up in the hype, whether legit or not. I frequently have to remind myself that great bodies existed decades ago without such things.

With all that aside though, and this isn't really on topic any more, is there a reason that MASS doesn't offer a casein or mixed protein powder?

askmass wrote:I'll be very honest with you all, myself and most of the folks I train with have never seen a whole lot of measurable performance difference over the years between using foods/fruits verses any of the carb powders.

I'm not so much the "lives at iron dawg gym" guy today as decades past, but as a a hardcore roadie (bicyclist) believe me you learn a LOT about using carbs and fruit sugars as fuel in this sport. Before, during and after riding. Most often you learn it the hard way, via failure, running out of gas! You also learn a lot about BCAA's and such to where you haul around MASS PRO Amino and a bag of "Real Salt" in your gear bag.

While I prefer using foods, the two carb powders referenced above are top flight to my knowledge. I think it comes down to convince more than anything, the advantages of using an all-in-one powder. It's not like the carb powders decidedly trump an athletes smart usage of carb foods the way something like Synthagen really does trump protein foods for post weight training recovery.

We've been offered a great buy in on Karbolyn several times, and I know it is legit... but, you can look back historically and see we've never carried a stand alone carb powder at MASS. Not once in 20 years, although we've field tested most every quality one (and some junk ones too) to come down the pike.

Maybe we could/should/would stock one. Maybe it's my mild bias against them which has precluded it from happening, but our focus has always been squarely on proteins because only protein builds muscle.

All that rambling done, I think either product mentioned above will deliver great results and convenience, and sometimes I'll grant that saving time trumps saving money.

WinskiG wrote:With all that aside though, and this isn't really on topic any more, is there a reason that MASS doesn't offer a casein or mixed protein powder?

We actually consider MASS PRO to be a mixed protein, because Colostrum is very different in form and function next to the two distinct whey components, and increasingly so on to the amino peptides (which are whey isolates, not outside sourced, BTW). So, it's really a unique and complex protein which is much more of a "naturally related mix" verses any stand alone "whey" or something with unrelated additions.

Before we get too far OT, I'll pass along that we are slowly working on a new protein formula. It will not be to replace or rival MASS PRO, but will address a different set of user wants and needs. My daughter is a vegetarian and has suggested for years we come up with a quality vegan version of MASS PRO. We've done several test batches of pea and rice, and they just do not meet our standards for taste and mixability.

However, Rob Van Dam put a bug in my ear to look into doing a hemp based protein and we've found some real success in playing around with it as a base protein compound. We might just have something in 2014 to release along this line, so stay tuned.

Very cool, John. Plant protein is a tricky thing to pull off based on what I've sampled from the market but I'm confident MASS is more than up to the task. Texture, mix-ability and of course taste are the big hurdles but I think the big advantage beyond them being suitable for vegetarians/vegans is that they often serve as a potent meal replacement as compared to whey and the like.

askmass wrote:

WinskiG wrote:With all that aside though, and this isn't really on topic any more, is there a reason that MASS doesn't offer a casein or mixed protein powder?

We actually consider MASS PRO to be a mixed protein, because Colostrum is very different in form and function next to the two distinct whey components, and increasingly so on to the amino peptides (which are whey isolates, not outside sourced, BTW). So, it's really a unique and complex protein which is much more of a "naturally related mix" verses any stand alone "whey" or something with unrelated additions.

Before we get too far OT, I'll pass along that we are slowly working on a new protein formula. It will not be to replace or rival MASS PRO, but will address a different set of user wants and needs. My daughter is a vegetarian and has suggested for years we come up with a quality vegan version of MASS PRO. We've done several test batches of pea and rice, and they just do not meet our standards for taste and mixability.

However, Rob Van Dam put a bug in my ear to look into doing a hemp based protein and we've found some real success in playing around with it as a base protein compound. We might just have something in 2014 to release along this line, so stay tuned.