Hello, i'm 'theculture' on the bodybuilding forums and post there quite a bit.
In the past 6+ months I did cut about 8lbs of fat while my lifts stayed the same. Bench went from 185x5 to 195x5. I know its good to maintain strength on a cut, but this is over such a long period of time. I was 183 @ 6'1 at my peak, now i'm down to 173lb, my 4-pack is visible again, and I can see veins in biceps/forearms again. (4 years ago i was 6'0 140lb in senior year HS with 3500+ cals a day for 18 months)
Anyway, I am excited to run this and get me out of my plateau for size/strength. For when I feast, I will be taking pre and intra workouts, whey protein and casein protein, multi/fishoil, 8weeks of Ebol and BioforgePromax. Then adding creatine mono for cruising phase.
I plan to eat clean and lean for feast, 3000 calories a day like I have for the past while. It's a couple hundred above maintenance.
Ok couple questions:
I know there is this week off to check my baseline heartrate, and get acclimated to the program. I was going to start today but then figure I need to equilibreize my body. But i'm too eager, would it be okay to start famine tomorrow, giving me 2 mornings of heartrate diagnostic (54 this morning). I feel like I understand it well, I absorb really quickly.
Second, would I just do 1/1/1 and 2/2/2 promax/ebol... 20-30' before breakfast, 20-30' before workout, then 20-30' before dinner? I saw someone mention taking 3 ebol pre and 3 post workout.
Jason's 1st: SICK RUN
Welcome! We're very glad to have you here and looking forward to helping out as much as possible. To answer your questions..
I know there is this week off to check my baseline heartrate, and get acclimated to the program. I was going to start today but then figure I need to equilibreize my body. But i'm too eager, would it be okay to start famine tomorrow, giving me 2 mornings of heartrate diagnostic (54 this morning). I feel like I understand it well, I absorb really quickly.
A. I'd much prefer you take the week. In the grand scheme of things, it's not a lot of time and it will pay BIG dividends to get a true RHR, formulate more questions and refine your plan. Please consider it. Either way though, I support your decision.
Second, would I just do 1/1/1 and 2/2/2 promax/ebol ecdy... 20-30' before breakfast, 20-30' before workout, then 20-30' before dinner? I saw someone mention taking 3 ebol ecdy pre and 3 post workout.
A. On training days, I generally counsel 1 dose an hour prior and one immediately after. Doing so will put the product in its optimal environment to benefit you. The third dose would be at another high protein meal during the day.
On off days, take it 30 min prior to your 3 highest PROTEIN meals spread througout the day. Take it with a BIT of fat.
I know there is this week off to check my baseline heartrate, and get acclimated to the program. I was going to start today but then figure I need to equilibreize my body. But i'm too eager, would it be okay to start famine tomorrow, giving me 2 mornings of heartrate diagnostic (54 this morning). I feel like I understand it well, I absorb really quickly.
A. I'd much prefer you take the week. In the grand scheme of things, it's not a lot of time and it will pay BIG dividends to get a true RHR, formulate more questions and refine your plan. Please consider it. Either way though, I support your decision.
Second, would I just do 1/1/1 and 2/2/2 promax/ebol ecdy... 20-30' before breakfast, 20-30' before workout, then 20-30' before dinner? I saw someone mention taking 3 ebol ecdy pre and 3 post workout.
A. On training days, I generally counsel 1 dose an hour prior and one immediately after. Doing so will put the product in its optimal environment to benefit you. The third dose would be at another high protein meal during the day.
On off days, take it 30 min prior to your 3 highest PROTEIN meals spread througout the day. Take it with a BIT of fat.
Ok thanks a lot Rob..
I have a couple quick questions. I plan on starting famine tomorrow, and I will have had 4 full rest days from lifting. RHR has been 56, 60, 60 so far, and I just bought all the food from your example famine diet.
I'm super pumped and ready. Like, I was becoming a bit depressed the past few days from no exercise or lifting.
1) Is it okay if I add these things to that diet so that I can top off around 1700-1800 cals: wheat toast with little butter, yogurt, mini bag of chips, or a glass of gatorade?
A. Yes, but go easy on the chips and such. Fruits, veggies, leafy greens and mixed nuts are what we're after. Famine is designed to deplete muscle substrate and although you'll lose weight even eating chips, when protein synthesis is radically escalated I like "clean" pathways for "clean" nutrition of that makes any sense. The gatorade.. stay away from the pre-mixed drinks = high fructose corn syrup. The powdered stuff is dextrose. While not ideal, at least it's something your body can use to your advantage around the workout. HFCS = adult onset diabetes in my book.
2) Is the lower the calories, the better? I know you recommend 8-12x bodyweight in calories, but I am on the move all day, taking 5 college class and 20 hrs work/week. So I figure I should actually try to scrape 2000 calories so that I can stay awake, focus on my school work, etc.
My calorie intake could range from 1400 to 2100 calories. Big different imo.
A. I recommend 8x BW in famine for a very specific reason... it is a mild (not starvation) caloric deficit for most ESPECIALLY considering the demanding workouts. Given your activity levels, I suppose only you can judge. If going about it subjectively, suggest proceeding as I advise in The Blueprint: you should feel hungry (slight discomfort) most of the time.. leading to the slight disruption in homeostasis we're trying to achieve.
3) during feast/cruise, is 30 min cardio 3x a week fine?
A. Yes sir, but I much favor this on off days in a fasted state. You'll burn the same # of calories but a much higher PERCENTAGE of those calories will come from fat as blood/liver glucose/glycogen is low.
I have a couple quick questions. I plan on starting famine tomorrow, and I will have had 4 full rest days from lifting. RHR has been 56, 60, 60 so far, and I just bought all the food from your example famine diet.
I'm super pumped and ready. Like, I was becoming a bit depressed the past few days from no exercise or lifting.
1) Is it okay if I add these things to that diet so that I can top off around 1700-1800 cals: wheat toast with little butter, yogurt, mini bag of chips, or a glass of gatorade?
A. Yes, but go easy on the chips and such. Fruits, veggies, leafy greens and mixed nuts are what we're after. Famine is designed to deplete muscle substrate and although you'll lose weight even eating chips, when protein synthesis is radically escalated I like "clean" pathways for "clean" nutrition of that makes any sense. The gatorade.. stay away from the pre-mixed drinks = high fructose corn syrup. The powdered stuff is dextrose. While not ideal, at least it's something your body can use to your advantage around the workout. HFCS = adult onset diabetes in my book.
2) Is the lower the calories, the better? I know you recommend 8-12x bodyweight in calories, but I am on the move all day, taking 5 college class and 20 hrs work/week. So I figure I should actually try to scrape 2000 calories so that I can stay awake, focus on my school work, etc.
My calorie intake could range from 1400 to 2100 calories. Big different imo.
A. I recommend 8x BW in famine for a very specific reason... it is a mild (not starvation) caloric deficit for most ESPECIALLY considering the demanding workouts. Given your activity levels, I suppose only you can judge. If going about it subjectively, suggest proceeding as I advise in The Blueprint: you should feel hungry (slight discomfort) most of the time.. leading to the slight disruption in homeostasis we're trying to achieve.
3) during feast/cruise, is 30 min cardio 3x a week fine?
A. Yes sir, but I much favor this on off days in a fasted state. You'll burn the same # of calories but a much higher PERCENTAGE of those calories will come from fat as blood/liver glucose/glycogen is low.
Day 1 of famine began today
Workout went well, but I definitely noticed my body didn't have the energy like it usually does with carbs. Usually do whey protein and oatmeal 1.5-2 hrs pre-workout.
I would usually squat 275lb, 6 reps. Today I could barely do 265x5. Also no pre-workout or intra's today of course.
I have a slight headache right now, have walked between classes/car about 1 mile today in the heat.
I find myself forgetting stuff easier than usual. I was mid-conversation and forgot what I was talking about. Havnt felt nauseous, maybe slightly light-headed.
All of my friends think what i'm doing is unsafe and rediculous
Workout went well, but I definitely noticed my body didn't have the energy like it usually does with carbs. Usually do whey protein and oatmeal 1.5-2 hrs pre-workout.
I would usually squat 275lb, 6 reps. Today I could barely do 265x5. Also no pre-workout or intra's today of course.
I have a slight headache right now, have walked between classes/car about 1 mile today in the heat.
I find myself forgetting stuff easier than usual. I was mid-conversation and forgot what I was talking about. Havnt felt nauseous, maybe slightly light-headed.
All of my friends think what i'm doing is unsafe and rediculous
OK this is consistent with what MOST report during the Famine period. Done correctly, its a HEALTHY exercise/detox phase.
As I ALWAYS counsel... HEALTH FIRST. If you're not feeling well, off or not right - discontinue.
Otherwise, I've found people mock that which they do not understand. I don't know any other way to put it than that.
As I ALWAYS counsel... HEALTH FIRST. If you're not feeling well, off or not right - discontinue.
Otherwise, I've found people mock that which they do not understand. I don't know any other way to put it than that.
Today was day 3 of famine, just got done lifting. It's crazy how much my lifts decreased, absolutely no energy in my muscles. After 1 set of 135lbx10 bench, I could only do about 95lbx10 on decline/incline. I've definitely learned to go lighter than usual.
Yesterday I was sneezing a lot and had itchy eyes from allergies. I also had a scratchy throat, like before you start coughing, but I didn't cough at all. Today I have a similar feeling. Kind of like that feeling before you get sick where you have lower energy and an itchy throat, but still not coughing. I woke up feeling decent, but just 10% less. Took 1/2 scoop white flood PWO.
I have invested way too much time/money into this to quit ($10 for drop-in since my University gym is closed on gameday + 2 months ebol/biogorge). I am going to take a couple vitamin C, and 8oz orange juice. I havn't been sick since the beginning of last winter, my immune system has been very solid since I started lifting/exercising. I have a feeling the itchy throat will subside today. If I wake up tomorrow and I am feeling worse, I will stop.
note: in the past i've had this happen a few times, I feel sick but the next day I'm 100%. I sneezed 3x while typing this, LOL.
Yesterday I was sneezing a lot and had itchy eyes from allergies. I also had a scratchy throat, like before you start coughing, but I didn't cough at all. Today I have a similar feeling. Kind of like that feeling before you get sick where you have lower energy and an itchy throat, but still not coughing. I woke up feeling decent, but just 10% less. Took 1/2 scoop white flood PWO.
I have invested way too much time/money into this to quit ($10 for drop-in since my University gym is closed on gameday + 2 months ebol/biogorge). I am going to take a couple vitamin C, and 8oz orange juice. I havn't been sick since the beginning of last winter, my immune system has been very solid since I started lifting/exercising. I have a feeling the itchy throat will subside today. If I wake up tomorrow and I am feeling worse, I will stop.
note: in the past i've had this happen a few times, I feel sick but the next day I'm 100%. I sneezed 3x while typing this, LOL.
Hey Rob just a little update..
I pushed through it for a day and I do feel fine. Allergies.
Which is surprising because I stayed up until daylight this morning doing a project, but managed to get 5 1/2 hours of sleep.
Just woke up and my RHR was what we want, about 68 BPM which is 8 over what I have been recording the past 7 days of preparing and famine. It was always 60. I think the bad sleep schedule had a lot to do with it. Been getting solid 8 hours sleep through all of this, and following your sample famine diet 95%
edit: I did the workout, but with less reps just because i'm super exhausted. My weight was 167.0lb.... so I lost 6 lbs. I hope I regain this fast. If I consistently eat 3500 calories a day, it should take about 3 weeks. I'm a super hard gainer.
You recommend 12-15x BW caloric intake on 72 hour feast. That's only 2550 calories. Should I stay around there, then when I start lifting I can go up to 3500? My maintenance is close to 3000.
Also, I should start the bioforge/ebol on my first workout day of feast, and not tomorrow, correct?
I can't wait to cook 6-7 eggs in the morning with 2 toast
I pushed through it for a day and I do feel fine. Allergies.
Which is surprising because I stayed up until daylight this morning doing a project, but managed to get 5 1/2 hours of sleep.
Just woke up and my RHR was what we want, about 68 BPM which is 8 over what I have been recording the past 7 days of preparing and famine. It was always 60. I think the bad sleep schedule had a lot to do with it. Been getting solid 8 hours sleep through all of this, and following your sample famine diet 95%
edit: I did the workout, but with less reps just because i'm super exhausted. My weight was 167.0lb.... so I lost 6 lbs. I hope I regain this fast. If I consistently eat 3500 calories a day, it should take about 3 weeks. I'm a super hard gainer.
You recommend 12-15x BW caloric intake on 72 hour feast. That's only 2550 calories. Should I stay around there, then when I start lifting I can go up to 3500? My maintenance is close to 3000.
Also, I should start the bioforge/ebol on my first workout day of feast, and not tomorrow, correct?
I can't wait to cook 6-7 eggs in the morning with 2 toast
Super job! To the heart beat... you did it!!
I pushed through it for a day and I do feel fine. Allergies.
Which is surprising because I stayed up until daylight this morning doing a project, but managed to get 5 1/2 hours of sleep.
Just woke up and my RHR was what we want, about 68 BPM which is 8 over what I have been recording the past 7 days of preparing and famine. It was always 60. I think the bad sleep schedule had a lot to do with it. Been getting solid 8 hours sleep through all of this, and following your sample famine diet 95%
edit: I did the workout, but with less reps just because i'm super exhausted from school, work, and no food. My weight was 167.0lb.... so I lost 6 lbs. I hope I regain this fast. If I consistently eat 3500 calories a day, it should take about 3 weeks. I'm a super hard gainer.
You recommend 12-15x BW caloric intake on 72 hour feast. That's only 2550 calories. Should I stay around there, then when I start lifting I can go up to 3500? My maintenance is close to 3000.
A. Knowing that, shoot for 3500 for 10 days. Then re-evaluate. Thanks for sharing.
Also, I should start the bioforge/ebol ecdy on my first workout day of feast, and not tomorrow, correct?
A. First day of Feast, correct!
I can't wait to cook 6-7 eggs in the morning with 2 toast
A. See MSR9889 about eggs. He's our expert You wouldn't believe how many eggs this guy eats!
His logs are priceles..
I pushed through it for a day and I do feel fine. Allergies.
Which is surprising because I stayed up until daylight this morning doing a project, but managed to get 5 1/2 hours of sleep.
Just woke up and my RHR was what we want, about 68 BPM which is 8 over what I have been recording the past 7 days of preparing and famine. It was always 60. I think the bad sleep schedule had a lot to do with it. Been getting solid 8 hours sleep through all of this, and following your sample famine diet 95%
edit: I did the workout, but with less reps just because i'm super exhausted from school, work, and no food. My weight was 167.0lb.... so I lost 6 lbs. I hope I regain this fast. If I consistently eat 3500 calories a day, it should take about 3 weeks. I'm a super hard gainer.
You recommend 12-15x BW caloric intake on 72 hour feast. That's only 2550 calories. Should I stay around there, then when I start lifting I can go up to 3500? My maintenance is close to 3000.
A. Knowing that, shoot for 3500 for 10 days. Then re-evaluate. Thanks for sharing.
Also, I should start the bioforge/ebol ecdy on my first workout day of feast, and not tomorrow, correct?
A. First day of Feast, correct!
I can't wait to cook 6-7 eggs in the morning with 2 toast
A. See MSR9889 about eggs. He's our expert
You wouldn't believe how many eggs this guy eats!His logs are priceles..
Okay today was workout #1 for feast. It went great. I'm either severely out of shape again (I did light cardio for a couple months, 3x a week before famine) or just getting back into it after starving my body. On the second EDT BLOCK (deads/legpress) I could barely catch my breath and was dripping sweat like crazy. It was funny because it was almost as if I just ran for a mile. Needless to say, I only did about 5 minutes of cardio post workout rather than 20-30
Anyway, I am thoroughly confused about this workout scheme.
According to the PDF, it says to just do the bench/pullover superset (8-10 reps), then do squat/stiff-deadlift superset (8-10 reps). Then it says "That's your whole workout, so put 100% into your work sets"
I figured, surely that's not the ENTIRE workout.
So I look at your Feast-workout-example-sticky-topic.
It says for DAY1 (and workout 1-5) to do the above, but after bench/pullover superset I do EDT BLOCK: incline-DB-press/T-bar-row superset. 6 rep set, 6 rep set, 5 rep set, 5 rep set, 3 rep set, 3 rep set... 2 minutes rest in between. And of course I use my 10 rep max weight, so I dont go till failure.
Then after the squat/dead superset, I do EDT BLOCK: romanian-deadlifts/legpress supersets. Same 6 set scheme as previous EDT block.
In that sticky, sovabrat says:
I read through other journals and see people doing EDT Blocks on their first feast day as well. I am extremely confused, lots of discrepencies.
Finally, I see it being recommended to rest 2 days after workouts 1-5, and also recommended 1 day rest. Should I just go with how I feel? I feel like 1 full day off is enough time for me to recover. If I wake up in 2 days and still feel slightly sore, I will take a full 2 days off.... thoughts?
(on another note: i'm glad im up to 170.5lb. Perhaps 1 lb is food still in my intensines, but I don't feel so skinny and famished now that I spent 3 days eating near 4,000 calories a day. I am now going to do a clean bulk @ 3000-3500 cals a day)
Anyway, I am thoroughly confused about this workout scheme.
According to the PDF, it says to just do the bench/pullover superset (8-10 reps), then do squat/stiff-deadlift superset (8-10 reps). Then it says "That's your whole workout, so put 100% into your work sets"
I figured, surely that's not the ENTIRE workout.
So I look at your Feast-workout-example-sticky-topic.
It says for DAY1 (and workout 1-5) to do the above, but after bench/pullover superset I do EDT BLOCK: incline-DB-press/T-bar-row superset. 6 rep set, 6 rep set, 5 rep set, 5 rep set, 3 rep set, 3 rep set... 2 minutes rest in between. And of course I use my 10 rep max weight, so I dont go till failure.
Then after the squat/dead superset, I do EDT BLOCK: romanian-deadlifts/legpress supersets. Same 6 set scheme as previous EDT block.
In that sticky, sovabrat says:
and then you follow up saying what sovabrat said is the cleanest way to do it.I think you are mixing up the loaded progression to your 1RM and the post 1RM section.
Leading up to your 1RM your progression should be as follows:
8-10
4-6
2-3
6-8
1RM
After you establish the 1RM then you move into EDT and the German Loading Pattern.
I read through other journals and see people doing EDT Blocks on their first feast day as well. I am extremely confused, lots of discrepencies.
Finally, I see it being recommended to rest 2 days after workouts 1-5, and also recommended 1 day rest. Should I just go with how I feel? I feel like 1 full day off is enough time for me to recover. If I wake up in 2 days and still feel slightly sore, I will take a full 2 days off.... thoughts?
(on another note: i'm glad im up to 170.5lb. Perhaps 1 lb is food still in my intensines, but I don't feel so skinny and famished now that I spent 3 days eating near 4,000 calories a day. I am now going to do a clean bulk @ 3000-3500 cals a day)
The PDF is a little out-dated. When you see a discrepancy between the PDF and sticky's, you usually should follow the sticky's. You want it to look like this -jasewon wrote: Anyway, I am thoroughly confused about this workout scheme.
According to the PDF, it says to just do the bench/pullover superset (8-10 reps), then do squat/stiff-deadlift superset (8-10 reps). Then it says "That's your whole workout, so put 100% into your work sets"
I figured, surely that's not the ENTIRE workout.
So I look at your Feast-workout-example-sticky-topic.
It says for DAY1 (and workout 1-5) to do the above, but after bench/pullover superset I do EDT BLOCK: incline-DB-press/T-bar-row superset. 6 rep set, 6 rep set, 5 rep set, 5 rep set, 3 rep set, 3 rep set... 2 minutes rest in between. And of course I use my 10 rep max weight, so I dont go till failure.
Then after the squat/dead superset, I do EDT BLOCK: romanian-deadlifts/legpress supersets. Same 6 set scheme as previous EDT block.
In that sticky, sovabrat says:
and then you follow up saying what sovabrat said is the cleanest way to do it.I think you are mixing up the loaded progression to your 1RM and the post 1RM section.
Leading up to your 1RM your progression should be as follows:
8-10
4-6
2-3
6-8
1RM
After you establish the 1RM then you move into EDT and the German Loading Pattern.
I read through other journals and see people doing EDT Blocks on their first feast day as well. I am extremely confused, lots of discrepencies.
W/O #1-
Bench: 8-10 reps
DB pullover:8-10 reps
EDT Block #1
Squat: 8-10 reps
Deadlift: 8-10 reps
EDT Block #2
People change around there EDT blocks a lot, so you might be confused if you see people doing different exercises in there logs. For each EDT blocks, you are shooting for 6 reps everytime. In the Feast-workout-example-sticky, it is just showing an example of the person doing 6-6-5-5-3-3 reps, because naturally you do less reps as you get more tired. For all of the EDT workouts you will be doing, you will always be shooting for 6 reps.
The # of reps for your Bench Press and Squat workouts should be following this scheme-
So Workout #2 would look like -Leading up to your 1RM your progression should be as follows:
W/O #1: 8-10
W/O #2: 4-6
W/O #3: 2-3
W/O #4: 6-8
W/O #5: 1RM
W/O #2-
Bench: 4-6 reps
DB pullover:4-6 reps
EDT Block #1
Squat: 4-6 reps
Deadlift: 4-6 reps
EDT Block #2
And so on.
Hope this helps.
Thank you very much. I'm glad I caught the sticky and did the EDT blocks today.
Should I do the same EDT blocks through all 5 workouts, or should I change it up each time?
So for example, my EDT#1 for workout 2 would be DB-delt-press/DB-bicep-curls..........6x6. Then EDT#2 could be leg-extensions/calve-raises 6x6. Thoughts?
2 days off is recommended? I need to take the next 2 days off since tmrw morning I have to install a few fence posts (holes/cement)
Should I do the same EDT blocks through all 5 workouts, or should I change it up each time?
So for example, my EDT#1 for workout 2 would be DB-delt-press/DB-bicep-curls..........6x6. Then EDT#2 could be leg-extensions/calve-raises 6x6. Thoughts?
2 days off is recommended? I need to take the next 2 days off since tmrw morning I have to install a few fence posts (holes/cement)