Bump :0DaCookie wrote:Redgum wrote:I've been a bit careless with planning here, nearly out of whey.. wont be enough time or cost efficient (to just order whey) from MASS, so I need an alternative which can be guaranteed to be good quality.
The whey I use now, I don't know for sure its been through cold-processing, so looking for a quick alternative while I investigate it.
I was thinking Dymatize Elite Whey or Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey Gold Standard.
Again not sure about how these whey's are processed.
Any other opinions on protein powders apart from the MASS products?
Many thanks
MASS whats your opinion on the other Beverly International supps?
Whey..
Re: Whey..
That stuff at Wal-Mart is probably the biggest lie I've ever seen in protein, and that covers some ground given my age (48).
A big, steaming pile of doggie doo.
Never mind the heat. It is likely half maltodextrin filler and being produced for them (it is one of their thousands of house brands) at about $3.73 a jug going by the standard Wal-Mart mark up procedure.
I'd agree and say it's probably the worst of the worst, yep...
A big, steaming pile of doggie doo.
Never mind the heat. It is likely half maltodextrin filler and being produced for them (it is one of their thousands of house brands) at about $3.73 a jug going by the standard Wal-Mart mark up procedure.
I'd agree and say it's probably the worst of the worst, yep...
Re: Whey..
I though the fact I recommended their powers as a substitute would have answered that!MASS whats your opinion on the other Beverly International supps?
BI has a long history of quality and is run by good people. They are not a huge, top heavy and all-for-maximum-profit operation.
They do not play the full page ad game and have built their rep on referrals more than anything.
Sound familiar?
If I had anything to fault them on it would be that some of the formulations are a bit less than advanced and innovative, but there is something to be said for tried and true and we practice that, too.
On the whole they do a very good job in my opinion and I do not hesitate to give them a thumbs up in general and especially for leading the way with a staunch stance on legit raw materials.
Nice discussion happening here, good to see.
Ok, so after a little looking into the protein I currently use. I am waiting back on an email about one other.
Says they use Cross-Flow Micro-filtration.
One or two of their products but I am looking into some products such as:
Undenatured Impact Whey Isolate 90% protein 5lb, £33.95. (Flavoured)
Undenatured Impact Whey Protein 82% protein 5lb, £16.95. (Unflavoured)
Hydrolysed Whey Protein(Pre-digested) 100% 5.5lb, £44.95. (Unflavoured)
(They also have about 10 other proteins ranging from pea, milk, soy, egg, hemp, pepto pro, acid whey, brown rice..etc)
So as far as I am aware the three items bolded are ok to use. Still looking into this Hydrolysed process though...
Ok, so after a little looking into the protein I currently use. I am waiting back on an email about one other.
Says they use Cross-Flow Micro-filtration.
One or two of their products but I am looking into some products such as:
Undenatured Impact Whey Isolate 90% protein 5lb, £33.95. (Flavoured)
Undenatured Impact Whey Protein 82% protein 5lb, £16.95. (Unflavoured)
Hydrolysed Whey Protein(Pre-digested) 100% 5.5lb, £44.95. (Unflavoured)
(They also have about 10 other proteins ranging from pea, milk, soy, egg, hemp, pepto pro, acid whey, brown rice..etc)
So as far as I am aware the three items bolded are ok to use. Still looking into this Hydrolysed process though...
I think I know about these products. I checked them out once...
They say that they're undenatured, not cold processed. In fact, if you dig a little deeper in their ad copy/ingredient list you find the term "low heat" processed.
Just seems a little fishy. Because low heat may mean in the 33 degree area or it may mean 60 degree area depending upon your definition. Readily admit I don't know at what temp the proteins/aminos cross link.
I don't know how pounds translate to dollars but if it's anything close those prices look suspect for a truly undenatured product.
They say that they're undenatured, not cold processed. In fact, if you dig a little deeper in their ad copy/ingredient list you find the term "low heat" processed.
Just seems a little fishy. Because low heat may mean in the 33 degree area or it may mean 60 degree area depending upon your definition. Readily admit I don't know at what temp the proteins/aminos cross link.
I don't know how pounds translate to dollars but if it's anything close those prices look suspect for a truly undenatured product.
£33.95 = $49.24
£16.95 = $24.58
£44.95 = $65.20
I got this response asking a question.
"Our whey protein comes from sweet whey which is a co-product of the cheese manufacturing process. The point about whey protein derived directly from skim milk is that it will undergo one less pasteurisation (heat treatment) step. However if protein does become denatured (damaged) by heat treatment it is less soluble and is filtered out by the membrane process. "
They sort of avoided the cold processing question... so I emailed back directly asking if it is cold processed or not.. so waiting..
If not it looks like a Beverly International Product.
Though I think LA and Solgar whey is cold processed.
Edit: However reading through responses again, my mind is telling me that it isn't so much 'needed' to have a cold processed whey, from what I read the bcaa etc would have been damaged, the protein may be 20% or so less effective, but with the price different of products, I may have to just stay with a 90% Isolate. In the future maybe I will try a cold processed whey and maybe I will see a difference, who knows. All I know is I better order something right now as I have maybe 2 scoops left..
£16.95 = $24.58
£44.95 = $65.20
I got this response asking a question.
"Our whey protein comes from sweet whey which is a co-product of the cheese manufacturing process. The point about whey protein derived directly from skim milk is that it will undergo one less pasteurisation (heat treatment) step. However if protein does become denatured (damaged) by heat treatment it is less soluble and is filtered out by the membrane process. "
They sort of avoided the cold processing question... so I emailed back directly asking if it is cold processed or not.. so waiting..
If not it looks like a Beverly International Product.
Though I think LA and Solgar whey is cold processed.
Edit: However reading through responses again, my mind is telling me that it isn't so much 'needed' to have a cold processed whey, from what I read the bcaa etc would have been damaged, the protein may be 20% or so less effective, but with the price different of products, I may have to just stay with a 90% Isolate. In the future maybe I will try a cold processed whey and maybe I will see a difference, who knows. All I know is I better order something right now as I have maybe 2 scoops left..
I suppose this article from an edition of our newsletter last fall will come across as a bit self serving here, but it will give you a lot of insight.
I'm not so sure I would not just recommend quality table foods in your situation, Red. Hard boiled eggs are a good value and are fairly fast to digest and assimilate.
I completely agree with Rob that a powder either delivers beyond table foods or I'd rather eat steak with my money.
****
>> Losing it's WHEY: An Inside Look at the Protein Market <<
EGG'CELENT?
The year is 1992. The protein powder touted as best in ads is Milk
and EGG. It doesn't dissolve into suspension and tastes like chalk.
The real crime though, was in the manipulation of buyer assumption:
Egg was touted as the highest quality protein of all, but if you looked
at the studies carefully you noticed something curious. WHOLE egg
(including yolk) was what that biological value was predicated upon.
What was in those metallic lined cans? It wasn't whole egg. It was
high heat dried egg white powder of dubious origin and quality.
1993: ENTER WHEY PROTEIN
The new kid on the block barges in. Much more soluble, and boasting
an honestly high biological value. Consumers noticed a BIG difference.
As the research continued to unfold, whey's health and muscle building
benefits really started to pour in. A year later, whey was here to stay!
At the forefront was the MASS distributorship, offering the highest
quality name brand whey protein available at the time.
1994: THINGS STARTED TO CHANGE
Whey protein got so hot, so fast that copycats sprang up left and right.
Worse, original formulas changed overnight. As research progressed, the
quality of whey proteins on the market re-gressed in quality. In haste
to make more whey faster (and cheaper), the big brands began drying
with heat and/or using unnatural chemical production to cut corners.
It all became about driving the production costs lower. Some brands were
watered down to being virtually worthless. Today, you can find one which
was once a good brand, that now goes for $41.99 for 5 lbs. The original
non big pharma version of it was almost that price for 2 pounds!
How did they cut costs so much? They changed to heat processing, and
cheap carbohydrates became the second ingredient in the "protein blend".
Wondering what happened to the top quality name brand whey the MASS
distributorship was stocking? Out of the blue in late summer 1995, it fell
from grace, too. This one had led the pack. Cold processed, easy mixing
and worked worlds better than egg protein. It even tasted good.
That all changed one day when a 'New, Improved!' version took the place
of the original, without warning. It had a new slicker label, huge fanfare.
The problem was, when one looked closer it was discovered the protein
content had been slashed almost 35%! And the taste, totally destroyed
by lacing it with uncalled for b-vitamins (what's called 'window dressing'
in the industry). Sadly, it was now also heat processed...
This was no big advancement as proclaimed. It was lipstick on a pig!
It was such a HUGE step backward and so ill received by (fast becoming
former) loyalists and serious distributors like MASS that in record time
you could hardly even find this once top brand of protein anymore.
OCTOBER 1995: A PHOENIX RISES
Fortunately, it was at this very point in time when the heralded and
most favored serious whey formula was about to get a new lease on life.
Prompted by athlete outcry, the #1 original whey formula was acquired by
John Drake of MASS and quickly re-introduced as 'MASS PRO Whey Protein'.
And thus, just like that, the good stuff was back! MASS PRO Whey Protein
was born, rising like a phoenix to fill the needs of serious athletes.
REAL PROGRESS
Today, in October of 2009, MASS PRO Whey Protein celebrates it's 14th
Anniversary. The MASS PRO name has earned a sterling reputation along
the way as one of the very finest protein powers in the world. To the point
of being trusted and recommended by medical professionals.
Compared to the other whey powders and their fall from grace, each upgrade
of MASS PRO has been to legitimately enhance the performance, health and
wellness attributes of what began as the best rated protein powder formula.
Today, it remains a vastly superior protein of true world class quality, for
14 years running.
*Read More about it*
State-of-the-art processing: https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/masspro.html
Buyer beware: https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/cheap-protein-supplement.html
Great tasting super shakes: https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/protein-recipes.html
I'm not so sure I would not just recommend quality table foods in your situation, Red. Hard boiled eggs are a good value and are fairly fast to digest and assimilate.
I completely agree with Rob that a powder either delivers beyond table foods or I'd rather eat steak with my money.
****
>> Losing it's WHEY: An Inside Look at the Protein Market <<
EGG'CELENT?
The year is 1992. The protein powder touted as best in ads is Milk
and EGG. It doesn't dissolve into suspension and tastes like chalk.
The real crime though, was in the manipulation of buyer assumption:
Egg was touted as the highest quality protein of all, but if you looked
at the studies carefully you noticed something curious. WHOLE egg
(including yolk) was what that biological value was predicated upon.
What was in those metallic lined cans? It wasn't whole egg. It was
high heat dried egg white powder of dubious origin and quality.
1993: ENTER WHEY PROTEIN
The new kid on the block barges in. Much more soluble, and boasting
an honestly high biological value. Consumers noticed a BIG difference.
As the research continued to unfold, whey's health and muscle building
benefits really started to pour in. A year later, whey was here to stay!
At the forefront was the MASS distributorship, offering the highest
quality name brand whey protein available at the time.
1994: THINGS STARTED TO CHANGE
Whey protein got so hot, so fast that copycats sprang up left and right.
Worse, original formulas changed overnight. As research progressed, the
quality of whey proteins on the market re-gressed in quality. In haste
to make more whey faster (and cheaper), the big brands began drying
with heat and/or using unnatural chemical production to cut corners.
It all became about driving the production costs lower. Some brands were
watered down to being virtually worthless. Today, you can find one which
was once a good brand, that now goes for $41.99 for 5 lbs. The original
non big pharma version of it was almost that price for 2 pounds!
How did they cut costs so much? They changed to heat processing, and
cheap carbohydrates became the second ingredient in the "protein blend".
Wondering what happened to the top quality name brand whey the MASS
distributorship was stocking? Out of the blue in late summer 1995, it fell
from grace, too. This one had led the pack. Cold processed, easy mixing
and worked worlds better than egg protein. It even tasted good.
That all changed one day when a 'New, Improved!' version took the place
of the original, without warning. It had a new slicker label, huge fanfare.
The problem was, when one looked closer it was discovered the protein
content had been slashed almost 35%! And the taste, totally destroyed
by lacing it with uncalled for b-vitamins (what's called 'window dressing'
in the industry). Sadly, it was now also heat processed...
This was no big advancement as proclaimed. It was lipstick on a pig!
It was such a HUGE step backward and so ill received by (fast becoming
former) loyalists and serious distributors like MASS that in record time
you could hardly even find this once top brand of protein anymore.
OCTOBER 1995: A PHOENIX RISES
Fortunately, it was at this very point in time when the heralded and
most favored serious whey formula was about to get a new lease on life.
Prompted by athlete outcry, the #1 original whey formula was acquired by
John Drake of MASS and quickly re-introduced as 'MASS PRO Whey Protein'.
And thus, just like that, the good stuff was back! MASS PRO Whey Protein
was born, rising like a phoenix to fill the needs of serious athletes.
REAL PROGRESS
Today, in October of 2009, MASS PRO Whey Protein celebrates it's 14th
Anniversary. The MASS PRO name has earned a sterling reputation along
the way as one of the very finest protein powers in the world. To the point
of being trusted and recommended by medical professionals.
Compared to the other whey powders and their fall from grace, each upgrade
of MASS PRO has been to legitimately enhance the performance, health and
wellness attributes of what began as the best rated protein powder formula.
Today, it remains a vastly superior protein of true world class quality, for
14 years running.
*Read More about it*
State-of-the-art processing: https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/masspro.html
Buyer beware: https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/cheap-protein-supplement.html
Great tasting super shakes: https://bodybuildingsupplements.com/protein-recipes.html
askmass, that was an interesting read, I read the first link you posted and skimmed through the 2nd. Thank you.
Assuming everything said is 100% true, I don't see how other companies can carry on selling their products if they know the proteins are damaged in the heat process. I guess its just advertising which sells it., but where has the pride and credibility of companies gone..
However the way I am seeing it as the choices are..
Denatured, highly heated whey is the least effective..
Undenatured, low heated.. more effective than above..
Undenatured cold processed, Most effective whey.
After researching a bit I'm glad to say I've not ever bought a denatured highly heated whey.
I'm all for trying new things, I will try MASS whey. Perhaps just not right now, maybe next BP run. Or when I can afford it.
(Out of curiosity how long is delivery from the US?)
Assuming everything said is 100% true, I don't see how other companies can carry on selling their products if they know the proteins are damaged in the heat process. I guess its just advertising which sells it., but where has the pride and credibility of companies gone..
However the way I am seeing it as the choices are..
Denatured, highly heated whey is the least effective..
Undenatured, low heated.. more effective than above..
Undenatured cold processed, Most effective whey.
After researching a bit I'm glad to say I've not ever bought a denatured highly heated whey.
I'm all for trying new things, I will try MASS whey. Perhaps just not right now, maybe next BP run. Or when I can afford it.
(Out of curiosity how long is delivery from the US?)
I thought XF 2.0 was excellent, just like I said in my review. That claims undenatured, low temperature. I honestly haven't tried Vasolate yet. Not sure what they claim there. The thing you need to keep in mind is this: These aren't true protein powders, they're MRP's. Is that bad? Not at all. Just understand the distinction..
XF (and by all accounts) Vasolate taste incredible. Some serious attention to flavoring, mouth feel etc has been made. There is sugar there too and fat. I'm unclear how much sugar in each and from what source but if memory serves it's there. Is this bad? I dunno. Would have to put the glucometer to it. I'd imagine the added protein/fats smooth it out nicely.
The fats lend mouth feel, satiety and yes they're healthy fats. I don't believe they're detrimental to health. In fact they're likely beneficial. The issue with fats in protein powders prior was that they went rancid when sitting on the shelf too long. Apparently, they've overcome this. I think Muscle Milk was the first.
This is just me but I tend to evaluate by protein grams per scoop. I take a scoop and I want almost all of it to be protein. XF is 18g/scoop x 24 scoops.
XF = 532g/jug or 2,128g/protein a case. Case is about $120 (I;ll assume free shipping)
MP = 768g/jug or 3,072g/protein a case. Case is $140 shipped
I wind up with just under 2lbs more protein for $20 more. I suck at math though so check my figures. Dunno. I'd run the #'s on Vasolate but that's more math than I've done since crunching the 2.0 Periodic loading patterns spreadsheet.
I do love the flexibility. I can mix in whipping cream if I want a lower carb shake for the day or waxy maize/juice if looking to load carbs for the day. I can also use it in my peri-workout drink given I know it's incredibly "fast". I suppose you could say I prefer the MassPro due to its known cold processing, di-tri peptides, added colostrum/peptides and flexibility.
We all have our favorites and I respect yours. There is a time and a place for each product. You wouldn't golf with just irons or just woods. You need a mix. Do yourself a favor though:
Don't load up on EAS whey or muscle milk pre-made drinks on special at WalMart.
Like to know why?
Read the latest Consumer Reports featuring a protein powder review. Near toxic levels of heavy metals in each provided you consume 2-3 servings of each a day!
XF (and by all accounts) Vasolate taste incredible. Some serious attention to flavoring, mouth feel etc has been made. There is sugar there too and fat. I'm unclear how much sugar in each and from what source but if memory serves it's there. Is this bad? I dunno. Would have to put the glucometer to it. I'd imagine the added protein/fats smooth it out nicely.
The fats lend mouth feel, satiety and yes they're healthy fats. I don't believe they're detrimental to health. In fact they're likely beneficial. The issue with fats in protein powders prior was that they went rancid when sitting on the shelf too long. Apparently, they've overcome this. I think Muscle Milk was the first.
This is just me but I tend to evaluate by protein grams per scoop. I take a scoop and I want almost all of it to be protein. XF is 18g/scoop x 24 scoops.
XF = 532g/jug or 2,128g/protein a case. Case is about $120 (I;ll assume free shipping)
MP = 768g/jug or 3,072g/protein a case. Case is $140 shipped
I wind up with just under 2lbs more protein for $20 more. I suck at math though so check my figures. Dunno. I'd run the #'s on Vasolate but that's more math than I've done since crunching the 2.0 Periodic loading patterns spreadsheet.
I do love the flexibility. I can mix in whipping cream if I want a lower carb shake for the day or waxy maize/juice if looking to load carbs for the day. I can also use it in my peri-workout drink given I know it's incredibly "fast". I suppose you could say I prefer the MassPro due to its known cold processing, di-tri peptides, added colostrum/peptides and flexibility.
We all have our favorites and I respect yours. There is a time and a place for each product. You wouldn't golf with just irons or just woods. You need a mix. Do yourself a favor though:
Don't load up on EAS whey or muscle milk pre-made drinks on special at WalMart.
Like to know why?
Read the latest Consumer Reports featuring a protein powder review. Near toxic levels of heavy metals in each provided you consume 2-3 servings of each a day!
Well apparently the Micellar Casein in Vasolate is cold processed.The only thing I dont like about it is the kinda high carbs.17g carbs for 33gs of protein.
But the thing I dont like about the Ultra Peptide 2.0 is that whey protein isolate is second on the ingredient list.Im a paranoid bastard so I would suspect them having a high enough % of that to bring down costs.But it has very low carb.
I think im gonna try em both.As a pre bed sorta thing.
But the thing I dont like about the Ultra Peptide 2.0 is that whey protein isolate is second on the ingredient list.Im a paranoid bastard so I would suspect them having a high enough % of that to bring down costs.But it has very low carb.
I think im gonna try em both.As a pre bed sorta thing.
Just to add one more thing to this discussion-
If MASS PRO were sold through the traditional route of distributor to wholesaler to retail/web outlet, all those mark ups would add up to a shelf price that would push $60 a jug or more.
Something to think about, and it's not especially intended as a sales pitch given this thread.
If MASS PRO were sold through the traditional route of distributor to wholesaler to retail/web outlet, all those mark ups would add up to a shelf price that would push $60 a jug or more.
Something to think about, and it's not especially intended as a sales pitch given this thread.